Our Department of Fly Lines (And Geezerhood) Reviews The RIO Gold Fly Line

Category:
fly fishing gear review
fly fishing stuff
Review
rio gold fly line
Added Date:
Thursday, 11 Nov, 2010
Summary
In the midst of my recent trip to an alpine spring creek, I realized I'd more or less settled on fishing small streams with the RIO Gold WF fly line I was given a couple years ago.
 
Content
In the midst of my recent trip to an alpine spring creek, I realized I'd more or less settled on fishing small streams with the RIO Gold WF fly line I was given a couple years ago.

Rio Gold Fly LineReasoning that three years offered enough testing time to arrive at some conclusions, I sat down to do two things:

    1. Write a review for the Trout Underground

    1. Order RIO Gold lines in DT4 && DT5 for my "everyday" reels


Which is when I made a revolting discovery; the RIO Gold line isn't available in a double taper.

Which means I'm recommending a fly line to my readers, yet can't buy one for my own use.

Life, it seems, is rarely simple.

The Testing

I was given the RIO Gold line for testing about the same time SA gave me one of their then-new Sharkskin lines.

The Sharkskin floated nice and high (just as claimed) and cast nicely, but it made a lot of noise in the guides (I'd have gotten used to it) and over the course of a day, tried to saw my index finger off (I couldn't get used to that).

The RIO Gold fished wonderfully too (it's the current choice of noted fly line & leader crank [Name Redacted]), and did so without delivering third-degree rug burns. I even liked the moss/gold color scheme.

We had a winner. Or so I thought.

It turns out my beloved double-taper fly lines are slowly fading from the mainstream.

And in the style of bewildered geezers everywhere, I'm certain it's not because I'm obsolete.

It's because everyone else doesn't know what the hell they're doing.

Like RIO, who makes a fine fly line, then mucks everything up by only offering it in a WF design.

The only high-end DT actually available from RIO is a "delicate presentation" line whose taper charts suggests it would run (screaming like a little girl) if you tied on a stonefly or streamer.

No dice.

The Case For The DT

Fishing the 5wt RIO Gold WF on small streams renders its WF flaws a non-issue; I rarely get past the shooting head, so life is good.

On bigger rivers and lakes, I often get past the shooting head and into the running line, and that is a problem, especially when long roll casts are in the mix (a reality more often that you'd think).

In fact I'm going to firmly entrench myself in Cranky Geezer Land; I can't fathom the popularity of the short-belly WF lines which seem to dominate the fly fishing world.
california-river-map
Much is made of their ability to "shoot" more line, but frankly, you can "shoot" plenty of DT line too. What's the real difference in distance?

And how often does it really matter?

Meanwhile, the DT line offers us a powerful pair of reasons to buy:

    • Great line control

    • A second shot at life


The beauty of a DT (besides its ability to roll cast to great distances) is this: you can reverse a DT line on your reel after you've worn it out (or stepped on it or cut it or accidentally sucked it up in a vacuum cleaner, or...).

It's basically two lines in one, which should mean a lot to fly fishermen paying $70-$100 for fly lines.

Cynics might suggest that's precisely why DT lines aren't pushed by manufacturers, but when confronted by a cranky, delusional blogger, the manufacturers simply blame "market forces."

In fact, an industry marketing exec once happily told me the availability of a "delicate" tapers in WF formats meant DT lines no longer had a reason to exist.

I wrote back and suggested that specialty distance and stillwater lines had rendered the general purpose, trout-weight WF obsolete - unless you were a line manufacturer interested in selling 2x as many fly lines as necessary.

Oddly, I never heard from him again.

So why, I ask, are manufacturers - and anglers - so unwilling to make or buy DT lines?

A Quick Look At The Market

While RIO doesn't offer a single "general purpose" DT fly line, Scientific Anglers does a little better, though their newest "textured" Mastery lines aren't available in a DT taper. (The Textured Mastery lines are likely a response to complaints about abrasive Sharkskin lines leveled by sore-fingered anglers, and the dimpled lines received all sorts of fly gear love from the notoriously cranky and wanted in seven states Singlebarbed).

In total, SA offers six different series of fly lines, three of which are available in a "standard" DT format (including the regular "Mastery" series).

Meanwhile, Orvis offers their highest-end Wonderlines in a DT format, though I've never tested one (the Olive Dun color looks nice) and can't give it a thumbs up or down.

Sadly, Cortland's lineup - which includes "Premium" fly lines and a whole wad of "species specific" fly lines - relegates the all-around DT to the same product lines you'd have bought 30 years ago.

I'm not much of a fan of technology developed solely to sell fly lines - and never bought into what appears to be rampant over-specialization of the fly line industry - but I do like fly lines that float high and pop off the water nicely.

The Sharkskin and RIO Gold lines both did that better than my aging peach lines, and I was interested.

It's a shame the fly line manufacturers can't find their way to sell the two-ended version commonly used by cranky geezer types holding low-modulus fly rods.

See you on the river (and hey, you kids get off my lawn), Tom Chandler.

Read More Fly Fishing Tips: Dropper or No Dropper
 
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Destinations
Red Bluff is a city in and the county seat of Tehama County, California, United States. The population was 14,076 at the 2010 census, up from 13,147 at the 2000 census. Red Bluff is ... moreon the northern edge of the Sacramento Valley, and is the third largest city in the Shasta Cascade region. It is about 30 mi south of Redding, 40 mi northwest of Chico, and 125 mi north of Sacramento.
Fishing Waters
Nestled in rocky basin along side steep canyon walls, this 40-mile Feather River tributary is known for its great beauty and abundant trout. By car, it a short drive from Sacramento. ... moreThe Yuba River continues through the canyons until it flattens around Parks Bar Bridge then runs parallel to highway.

//

Species include wild rainbow trout, steelhead in the fall, and striped bass. While rainbows tend to average about 12 inches, there are recent reports of 18-25 inch trout being found.
Game Fish Opportunities:
Guide Reports:
The Sacramento River is the principal river of Northern California in the United States, and is the largest river in California. Rising in the Klamath Mountains, near Mount Shasta ... more(in Siskiyou county), the river flows south for 445 miles, through the northern section (Sacramento Valley) of the Central Valley, before reaching the Sacramento–San Joaquin River Delta and San Francisco Bay. It forms a common delta with the San Joaquin River before entering Suisun Bay, the northern arm of San Francisco Bay. The river drains about 27,500 square miles, with an average annual runoff of 22 million acre-feet, in 19 California counties, mostly within a region bounded by the Coast Ranges and Sierra Nevada known as the Sacramento Valley, but also extending as far as the volcanic plateaus of Northeastern California.

//
The McCloud River and its tributaries offer excellent fishing opportunities. The California Department of Fish and Wildlife regularly stocks the Upper McCloud River at Lower Falls ... morewith Rainbow trout. Anglers also occasionally catch German brown trout from earlier stockings or those that traveled up from the McCloud Reservoir, and Brook trout. Remember that the Bull Trout or Dolly Varden is an endangered species and should be released if caught.

//

The Lower McCloud River, from McCloud Reservoir to Shasta Lake, has been designated a Wild Trout Stream by the California Department of Fish and Wildlife. This portion of the river is not artificially stocked and has special fishing regulations. Only artificial flies and lures with barbless hooks can be used. At the McCloud River Preserve, located one mile below Ah-Di- Na Campground, fishing is limited to catch and release only. Consult the map on the back, and the California Department of Fish and Wildlife Regulations for further details and restrictions.

Endangered species - The McCloud River is the only fishery in California which supports the now rare Bull Trout, also known as the Dolly Varden Trout. Actually a member of the Char family, it is found between Lower Falls and Shasta Lake. Because it is considered an endangered species by the State of California, it must be released if caught.
Game Fish Opportunities:
Trips
$
225
/ Angler
Capacity:
1 - 2 anglers
Days:
Daily
Duration:
1 day
Destination:
The Klamath River is very scenic and abundant with wildlife including black bears, otters, deer, eagles and other birds of prey. During the fishing season it's not uncommon to encounter ... moreone or all of these animals during your trip. The Klamath sports two separate runs of king salmon. Springer's which enter the river from mid-May through mid-July, and the fall run which begins in early August and continues through late October. These salmon average 8 to 15 pounds but can reach weights in excess of 40 pounds.

Steelhead begin showing up in the river in July and average 5 to 8 pounds with some reaching the mid-teens. There are also an abundant of 12-18 inch steelhead called half-pounders during the salmon season which can make for quite a fun filled day of fishing for beginners and seasoned anglers alike.

Our guided fly-fishing trips include 8 hours or more spent pursuing steelhead. Your leaders and Fly's are included in the price of the trip. You are welcome to bring your own tackle if you prefer.

Fishing the rivers of the North Coast we utilize several different methodologies to pursue steelhead. The most poplar and most widely practiced is utilizing one of many fly's such as a Copper John or similar type offering with a dropper and a glo bug. We utilize 4-6 weight rods.
$
450
/ Boat
Capacity:
1 - 2 anglers
Days:
Daily
Duration:
1 day
We fish the Lower Sac year-round for trout. We fish the river from drift boats, typically floating from 6 to 15 miles in a day. Although the nymph grab is good all year, the best times ... morefor consistent mid-day dry fly fishing are March-May and September-November. We also do a lot of swinging flies with lightweight spey rods. This is a great way to fish the shallow riffles.
$
325
-
$
450
/ Boat
Capacity:
1 - 2 anglers
Days:
Daily
Duration:
4 hours - 8 hours
Fishing Waters:
Destination:
The Yuba River is one of the most popular known fly fishing rivers in Northern California, and that is why it’s one of the most sought after rivers for fly fishing enthusiasts. This ... moreriver is one that can yield 20 fish one day and leave you scratching your head the next, that's why having a knowledgeable Yuba River Fly Fishing Guide is so important. The abundance of aquatic insects on this river is why it is so sought after, it's one of the few rivers in California that you can effectively fish dries year round. While the river plays host to a number of species, including steelhead and king salmon at times, the resident wild rainbows are the most sought after species throughout the year. They can be picky at times, but once you get in tune with their feeding habits you're bound to have a blast. The fishing on the Yuba is top-notch and I haven't found a river yet that is this much fun to fish. This river produces year-round spunky wild rainbow trout that can reach over 20".

Pound for pound the Yuba River trout is a species of its own. They are the toughest, hardest fighting trout you will ever hook into. If you've never had an 16" fish take you into your backing within seconds, then it’s time that you fish the Yuba River. In the fall, it is also home to a native/wild King Salmon run with some pushing 50lbs and big enough to devour any Yuba trout in its path. Nonetheless, it's the Yuba's steelhead that really puts the icing on the cake. Though not huge like the American river winter run steelhead (Yuba River steelhead range from 2-6 lbs), these half-pint steelhead are among the hardest fighting and the most beautiful fish you will ever have the pleasure of encountering. The Yuba gets a shot of them midsummer, then again from November to April. Not only is there year round fishing, but there is also an abundance of bug life as well ranging from BWO's, PMD's, Midges, Caddis, Skwalas, Golden Stones, March Browns, Hoppers and every so often a Salmon Fly, that will have these fish feeding no matter the time of year. There is even an egg bite on t he Yuba too, this happens during the salmon spawn in October, also during this time of year there is something special that happens on the river that I will show you too. Something you never thought possible and it will be our little secret. Even after all that the Yuba does, however, have something else to offer. As an added bonus from the fishing, there are a lot of wild critters roaming its banks as well, big bucks, strutting toms, beavers, otters, ducks, geese and even black bears. All that and great fishing, what more could you ask for.

-Brian
Outfitters
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We are a team of friendly and knowledgeable fly fishing guides, with a combined 40 years of fly fishing experience, dedicated to making your adventure on the water with us as enjoyable ... moreand informative as possible. We want you to succeed in all of your fishy endeavors, and we will take the time with you to make sure that you have all the techniques and skills necessary to catch fish wherever you go. Float or Walk and wade with us on one of Northern California's finest rivers and streams and we will accommodate our guiding style to meet your needs and abilities. With our extensive fly fishing knowledge and experience on waters all over Northern California, we will guide you on a fly fishing trip you will not soon forget.

NCFG practices catch and release on all boats. We respect the sport of fishing and wish to give all anglers the opportunity to experience the gratification we strive to give each of our clients.
41 comments
Airflow seems to own most of the mad scientists of the fly fishing line world. Having owned exactly one Airflow line (a horrifying, sticky mess), I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing. Let us know.
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Recently popped for a new DT-5. Or so I thought. It is an Airflow SuperDry Elite Trout, All Round Taper. Glowing accounts (all from Airflow now that I reflect on it) about the technological supremacy of their latest fly lines provoked the $75 mail order purchase. First impression- this is one FAT DT-5. Apparently packing all that advanced awesomeness into one line requires lots of diameter. At first ... more I thought that the line might have been a mismarked 6, but not so. I’m not a fan of chubby fly lines. Back in the 80s I used to buy Scientific Anglers produced Orvis DTs just because they were the thinnest (non silk) floaters available. Astonishing revelation- It isn’t a DT at all! It is ONE high tech “presentation” style taper followed by lots of running line. That’s right it’s a Single Taper. Informed field report to follow- so far I’ve only fished the line one day (willow grubs, bitches!) and was very pleased with how it threw and landed both close and far. Looking forward to more testing if and when our relentless snow melts.
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Paul brought those bragging rights to Florida's east coast fish and chips in extraordinary fashion. Besides big gamefishing, the resort offers all kinds of great catches this year, and it rewarded me with a long strip of rabbit fur to undulate behind.
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Love the " screaming little girl " part and love the DT lines too
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Tom, As usual, you find a way to be a cranky critic while remaining magnanimously diplomatic. I'm a DT guy for the same reasons: Roll casting and line longevity. As fly line prices continue rise, so do the legions of us seeking the rare combination of durability and, I'll coin a word here, "doesthefreakingjobitwasmeantodo". Working part-time at a well known New England fly shop I can say this : the ... more line choices are bewildering for the average angler. Having used all the lines mentioned, I've been disappointed for one reason or other. So, In my quest for an intermediate line for salt water I found the best line I've ever used: Airflo's Ridge Line. The longitudinal ridges are superior to sharkskin in function and finger safety. So it was logical that I would give the trout lines a go. I now have the Ridge Supple Tactical DT on my 3wt. sage SPL which is outstanding. I do use a RIO for my six weight, but when that goes I'll be jumping ship. It must be said that I beat the crap out of fly lines, fishing hundreds of days a year in salt, lakes, cold streams etc. This generation of Airflo lines has over-delivered. I'm done cheerleading.
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[...] You have to give RIO some credit; I beat them up in this semi-rant for not building their RIO Gold fly line in a double taper (Our Department of Fly Lines (And Geezerhood) Reviews The RIO Gold Fly Line). [...]
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My comments above notwithstanding, just to clarify - DT lines are great when matched with the right rod and the right situations (lighter freshwater applications and dry flies, for the most part), no different than WF lines. But they aren't the end all. I have a Rio Trout DT on my trusty Sage SLT and it's perfect, but I also recently put a Rio Outbound Short on my Redington Predator and when that's ... more the setup that's called for (turning over big flies, and/or windy conditions, etc.) there isn't a DT setup that can beat it, imo.
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I heard from the folks at RIO, who suggest that cutting back the delicate "LT" double taper line just a bit would make it a very powerful fly line (similar to the way we used to take a foot off the end of the Triangle Taper lines). The Avid line is supposed to be quite powerful, though it lacks the floating tip stuff that I like. They're sending an LT for testing; I'll give it a runout during winter ... more BWO season and let you know...
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For me the Rio company could probably sell twice as many lines if they had them in DT as well as WF. I always like to find the DT that works well with a rod, then have one of the extra reel spools carry a WF one weight higher for tossing bigger and/or heavier flies (I think a lot of anglers do this). But that double taper does get the majority of use in my fishing.
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That sounds entirely plausible. It's really not that big a market.
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I believe that there are 4 fly line makers. Cortland, SA, Rio, and Airflo...and the rest are all made by these folks. From my informant at Rio.
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Love the discourse. Love DT's and fish them the majority of the time…with guests, WF. It helps. Final thought: Rio Gold is the hybrid line of the future. Very similar to the Triangle Taper/Wulff and Delta Tapers/Airflo. The hybrid rules. Hmmmm...I am beginning to understand the hybrids. When I bought a Rio Gold 5 wt. WF this spring, my trusty local shop owner told me that the front taper was very ... more close to a DT. It then tapers down like a WF after that, instead of staying the same like a DT. So, while it may fish like a DT, and occupy less space on my spool, I will still be unable to reverse the line when it dies.
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My informant sez it's Cortland, SA and RIO with the rest "probably jobbed". That isn't totally etched in stone, but I bet that he's right. Maybe, you have found a niche market that needs exploitation? Or, the heartbreak of the century?
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Love the discourse. Love DT's and fish them the majority of the time...with guests, WF. It helps. Final thought: Rio Gold is the hybrid line of the future. Very similar to the Triangle Taper/Wulff and Delta Tapers/Airflo. The hybrid rules.
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I think the two biggest enemies of reasonable fly rod tapers are indicator nymphing and fly shop parking lots (where stiff rods excel), but buying a rod that requires an specialty fly line to cast well at normal ranges beggars belief. I would add one more ... the entire "bead head" fly phenomenon, where you have that enormous and ungainly tungsten weight out front of the fly. This was actually popularized ... more so fly tier's wouldn't have to show that they couldn't tie a slim and tapered head on the fly if their life depended on it. The collateral damage is we're forced to fish a weight forward, believing it's the only thing capable of lobbing the 3/8 ounce "fly-Jig" with its accompanying brightly colored sofa pillow float. Just sayin' is all.
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True in a way. But provided I spend 50 days a year fishing then after two years I trush the line regardless it's shattered or not as wind, heat and UV wears off the line anyway. So I can't imagine swithing ends in DT line as the two-year old line is no longer good. If you fish more than 100 days a year then yes you could use the other end of the line ... but if you can afford to spend like 1/3 year ... more fishing then I envy you as you are a rich man ;-) ... and can afford a new line :-)
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I think the two biggest enemies of reasonable fly rod tapers are indicator nymphing and fly shop parking lots (where stiff rods excel), but buying a rod that requires an specialty fly line to cast well at normal ranges beggars belief. The "standard" trout rod used to be a 6wt; now it's more like a 4wt, but I suspect that overly stiff rods and front-loaded fly lines are one way to turn a 4wt into an ... more all-around rod...
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Simply these days the variety of head profiles and their lengths is something in between WF and DT. Yes, but only one of those can be reversed and used a second time. It seems to me that two things are driving the market; the rise of over-fast graphite rods and the development of front-weighted fly lines to make them work. For those of us who fish relatively "reasonably" tapered (or old fashioned) ... more tapers, the modern WF lines - don't offer much of anything beyond 2x the cost...
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You've given me a lot to look forward to...
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The popularity of WF lines, for better or worse, has evolved in tandem with the overblown (in my opinion) "fast action" rod market. There's a mix of perception and reality in that today's über-fast action rods require more concentrated, heavy heads to load (well, at shorter distances, anyway). There's some truth to this, but then again, there's also a lot of truth to the statement that for a lot ... more of applications, an ultra stiff rod is completely unnecessary and probably even counter-productive, regardless of casting style. What a lot of people don't seem to get is that the more specialized your line/rod combo become, the less versatile the setup is going to be for a wide variety of applications. That doesn't exactly seem like rocket science, but the number of people who won't entertain fishing anything other than super fast rods and concentrated WF lines, and who think that anything else is hopelessly behind the times, says otherwise.
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Rio has begun to offer an intermediate line in a DT (The Avid series). Also, SA's Mastery Series has very similar technology to the Rio lines (I still think Rio is better though) and the Trout Taper comes in a DT. So does the GPX and XPS. You'll have a hard time finding much over 6wt (or even 4 or 5 depending on the shop), but I think the only people who use 8wt DT line are really old school Atlantic ... more Salmon fishermen from Newfoundland.
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Hi Tom, I've recently done a comparative test of 4 floating fly lines, including RIO Gold, Wulff TT, Vision Vibe 85 and Guideline 4-Cast. All lines are qualified as WF (except for Wulff that has Triangle Taper instead of WF but still is a single ended line) and I'm personally in favor of. Why? Simply these days the variety of head profiles and their lengths is something in between WF and DT. The idea ... more behind is to come up with the line that combines pros of both DT and WF that is presentation (preferably delicate as for floating line) and performance (accuracy at given distance). Also the new head profiles and weights are meant to be cats at least to the distance of the complete head to fully take advantage of it's characteristics. So for me DT /WF division becomes more and more obsolete. BTW in my test RIO Gold turned out to be best all-around line as advertised but still it is important to look and how well or bad all the lines do in individual categories. Best, Janusz
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I guess I'm a crank too. With the exception of spey lines I don't own any wf lines at all. I tried a bunch of assorted brands etc over the years but end up back at peach 444 for all my plastic. Probably 95% of the time I fish silk... yes its a bit of a hassle but its pleasant and has casting characteristics far better than any plastic line ever made....yes after several hours you switch spools or ... more reverse ends but to me its worth it. (but I suspect that may be more of an indicator of mental illness than character)....One unsung virtue of real line is that when you pull the reel out of the bag you get a whiff of varnish just like you do with a real rod.....
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I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of fly lines with the special “High Stick” taper. Ralph C I'm pretty sure that's called "monofilament"
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Your codger frustration and disgust with all things new-fangled will just get worse- as you've no doubt forseen from being around Roberts and me.
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I will find out for sure !
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what gives with the lack of DT's? I had this conversation a while back with a rep and the company line was something like, "Today's anglers demand performance lines". High performance and double taper probably don't make a good ad couplet. I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of fly lines with the special "High Stick" taper.
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Why not go with a DT silk? Silk may cost three times as much as Plastic. But you get more four-five times more life out of silk. For glass and bamboo rod, silk makes casting it the wind easier, and it provides a more gentle presentation. Plus your glass or bamboo rod seems to come alive in your hand when casting or playing fish. If you fish in weather below 32 degrees just save one DT plastic line ... more for winter fishing.
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I've been looking at the Airflo stuff, but my only introduction was via a line that was so sticky and bad I threw it away after two trips (I'm a slow learner). Expensive fly lines have to be credited with doing one thing to the market: they've created an unwillingness to experiment at $75 a pop.
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I've gotta think it's a few more than three (SA, Cortland, RIO, Airflo for starters), though I have no evidence either way. I doubt the market's big enough to support much more than 4 or 5 tho...
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"but my every day specialty line of choice" I fully expect to see some manufacturer co-opt the above line any day now... Seriously, you're way more plugged into the industry than I am; what gives with the lack of DT's?
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Wow. They used to sell the Sylk in a DT (own a couple). It's a nice line for calmer water, but never floated all that well in the rougher stuff. And I've got no problems with the 444 "peach" lines - except the Rio Gold floats better. Ah well...
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I may do that. The "Olive Dun" looks like a reasonable color.
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Agree 1000% The Truckee is hardly what I would call a small trout stream but 80% of the time the drill is water haul, roll cast, mend. Water haul, roll cast, mend. Water haul, roll cast, mend. I appreciate that I can buy a specialized carp, bass, smallmouth bass, striped bass, clousser, pike, and windy day line to fit that special occasion . . . but my every day specialty line of choice would be one ... more called a "water haul, roll cast and mend" line. AKA double taper. Still haven't figured out what it can't do.
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I was surprised when I read this. My immediate thought was that you left off the Sylk line from Cortland, which is popular with a lot of glass fanatics. I've never been much of a Cortland fan, more of an SA then Rio over the last 10 years of so. So I looked up Cortland's Sylk on their website, and whooda thunk it...that thing is a WF too!
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A guide once told me that there were only three (3) companies that actually manufacture fly line, and that all the rest was marketing BS. That was my welcome to geezer hood. So it's DTs, Wonderline, and Triangle Taper for me because that's what I'm used to using. It also amazes my friends when I rollcast in saltwater into the wind!
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I have been using the ridge technology lines from Airflo for the past two seasons. They have several interesting taper options available. Anyone else tried these out?
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Love my Orvis DT Wonderline! With my Mid flex rod, I roll cast and keep my fly in the water twice as much as many folks. No wasted effort and delicate presentations. More fish andlLess lost flies in the shrubbery, too. Yeah, I'm approaching geezerhood, also. Tom, give Orvis a go.
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Sigh... Sign me up for Geezerhood :( I like double tapers and am budget concious... Sigh... Hey! Kids! Get off my lawn!
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I too don't dig the fly line "sharkskin" - way over rated. Kelly Galloup helped design it. I told him I didn't like that it made a lot of noise...he covered it up by saying...at my age any noise you can hear is good noise. I fish with RIO right now..the one mentioned in this article...far superior...way nice!
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No question that both presentation and accuracy suffers with the WF lines. Especially true in that uncontrolled area where the cast is long enough to clear the head from the guides, but you really don't want much more on the release. Physics ignores your best braking efforts and the cast immediately pulls 17 feet of running line (about 12 feet more than you wanted) with an impact much more vigorous ... more than you had hoped. I don't mind them for big rivers and lakes, but medium to small streams you have to be doubly mindful of all that kinetic potential in the WF design.
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